French band In Cauda Venenum recently released the enigmatically-titled album G.O.H.E., their second full release. It captured the interest of Ave Noctum’s writer Andrew Doherty who at the invitation of the band’s label Les Acteurs de l’Ombre asked band members Ictus & N.K.L.S. a few questions.

AN: First of all, thank you for agreeing to be interviewed. How’s it going in these troubled times? I hope you and those around you haven’t been adversely affected.

Ictus: Hello! We are fine: after few years, our second album is finally out! Since we recorded everything ourselves, I’d say it didn’t have that much of an effect on us.

N.K.L.S.: As for these past few months’ situation, it didn’t have much of an impact on us: only our label’s planning was slightly changed.

AN: I didn’t know of your band before I heard “G.O.H.E.” For the benefit of myself and readers, can you tell us about In Cauda Venenum, your vision and what we should expect when listening to your work?

Ictus:  Everything started in 2009-2010. I wrote 4 tracks that last over 15 minutes. These first versions featured a horrible drum machine. When I got convincing raw versions, I sent all the stuff to N.K.L.S. and asked him to join me and compose drum parts. We decided to re-write all the songs to fit his drum style. He was so involved in the process that he started learning guitar for the first album, and on our last one, he also plays bass. So the core of In Cauda Venenum is a duo but since our debut album, we have recruited classical musicians guests: a cellist, a double bass player and a pianist.

N.K.L.S.: The band’s name comes from In cauda venenum, a Latin/Roman phrase we can translate as “The poison in the tail”, in reference to the scorpion. It was originally used to describe a text or a speech which starts nicely to make the audience or the adversary feel comfortable, and suddenly ending in a sharp and nasty tone.

Ictus: For us, this phrase could also describe Life itself. We all have one common fate: we are born to die.

AN: I review many new albums and sometimes it’s a case of seeing it through to the end, listening to it, and writing a few words. “G.O.H.E.” made me sit up in awe of the atmospheric magnitude when I first listened to it. I lived and breathed the power, the drama and the tragedy. What’s the magic formula?

N.K.L.S.: Haha thanks a lot! But there is no magic formula or any spell. We “only” take our time to compose.
We work by complex iterations: create, record, listen, listen again, and again,… then have a break to keep a point of view as neutral as possible, and make changes, erase some stuff, try something else, etc…

Ictus: One of the reasons the result is not common probably comes from the fact we exclusively work remotely. Consequently, we feel free to try lots of stuff on both sides, before sharing and debriefing. This is also why we feel comfortable creating “long” musical tracks. It’s like writing a story. It requires time.

AN: How did the creative process work with “G.O.H.E”? Did you develop a musical concept, and the theme came to you later or was it the other way round where the subject matter came first?

N.K.L.S. : It is mostly the music that takes shape first. Lyrics come towards the end, once the musical frame is almost finished. However, some fragments of text are written alongside the composition process, relating to the theme but also to the emotions and images that come to us while we write and listen to the music.

Ictus : Actually, as a big fan of James Ellroy’s work, I had this idea to work on his unbelievable history when I read The Hilliker Curse, and My Dark Places, two years ago. The music was almost settled, and I quickly added samples to bring “colors and feelings”, and make musical adjustments considering the whole story, from the beginning to the end of the album. This last step took almost one year, and has big consequences on our musical choices and orientations.

AN: I now know that “G.O.H.E” stands for Geneva Odelia Hilliker Ellroy, and is a reference to the author James Ellroy’s mother, who was murdered when he was 10, resulting in subsequent trauma and his redemption in the form of writing. Very cleverly this closure is reinforced at the end of “Déliverance”. This is quite a specific theme. How did you come to pick it out?

ICV: As mentioned before, I’ve been interested in Ellroy’s life and work for a few years. I’ve been very moved and impressed by this uncommon tragedy, and I thought: everybody knows James Ellroy, but (almost) all of his work has been driven by his mother. Then I dug deeper into the subject thanks to his autobiographies, and decided I had to make a tribute to this woman as a Mother. The starting point is the spell a 10 years old boy cast on her mother, causing her death by murder and condemning him to be obsessed by crimes, sex and chaos. Fifty years later, it remains an unsolved case. From his tenth birthday and over a half century, he had to carry this terrible burden and live a true hell until he found salvation thanks to writing.

With this album, we explored James Ellroy’s passionate, brutal and mystical story. It is devoted to his redemption through his eternal, romantic, obsessive, pathological and literary catharsis.

AN: I’m not normally a fan of the spoken word on albums, but on “G.O.H.E.” the narration is clear and personal, and provides deep insight into the album’s theme without being intrusive. “I am obsessed with obsession” – that line is just haunting. Who wrote the words, and who is the narrator?

ICV: “I am obsessed with obsession” is a part of James Ellroy’s interview. We included several sources taken from interviews and readings dealing with his two autobiographies. James Ellroy is a great writer and showman; he knows the art of make strong punchlines like this one.

N.K.L.S.: As our lyrics are spoken in French, including such spoken words was a mean to bring clues and drive non-French speaking people through the narration.

AN: On the production side, are you interested in theatre? I felt at certain points as I listened to “G.O.H.E” theatrical elements that I might associate with Carach Angren or Dimmu Borgir, but instead of going over the top and I’d guess in deference to the album’s sombre theme, it’s tightly controlled. At times on “Malédiction”, it’s like standing in front of a magnificent cathedral. On parts of “Déliverance” the atmosphere evokes sheer tragedy. Did you consider the theatricality of the presentation and deliberately limit the atmosphere to sinister dramatic effect as it appears?

Ictus: We are big fans of Dimmu Borgir in part because of those cinematic components, which stimulate our imagination as you described. Our music is essentially driven by emotions and feelings. It’s like painting a story with notes and atmospheres. The musical arrangements and balancing elements are keys to producing a digestive mix. N.K.L.S. and I are both very “visual” in our musical conception. We almost consider In Cauda Venenum albums to be original soundtracks dedicated to strong concepts. We bring people into a 22 minute rollercoaster and have to maintain their attention till the end. Our next step is an audiobook! Haha!

AN: In constructing passages which range between epic power and tragic melancholy with choirs and chants and narration, how did you ever reach the point in your preparation where it sounded and felt as you wanted it to be?

N.K.L.S.: We take our time. It’s all about time and timing with In Cauda Venenum. We really enjoy taking our time to settle atmospheres, progressively raising thrills, exploring and developing musical themes… Each time, we explore so many variants that at the end, we have lots of possibilities to articulate the progression of the tracks.

Ictus: As you mentioned, melancholy and epicness are the core of this musical project. It’s a part of our identity. This beauty emanating from melancholy could be linked with ephemera, ideals and mourning. Our music is about hope, failure, and vanity. Black Metal is perfect to create pieces exploring this wide panel of feelings. We’re deeply honest and concerned with concepts developed in In Cauda Venenum. When we both agree that we have finally found the good combination, we can’t explain it, we just feel it.

AN: “G.O.H.E” is a highly ambitious work featuring classical as well as metal instruments and a range of sonic effects, vocal strategies and gloomy, turbulent and sinister atmospheres. Did you ever think you might be putting in too much when you were developing it?

Ictus: We validate our work with our heart more than our brain, so we’ve never thought about such things. We compose for ourselves and we trust each other. Thinking like this avoid any loss of time and enables us to maintain our focus on the creation rather than questions.

AN: After enjoying “G.O.H.E” so much, I have listened to your self-titled album from 2015. What I heard was an epic and harsh progressive-orientated black metal work. How would you say In Cauda Venenum has progressed since that album?

ICV: Both albums are very close. One common aspect is the duration of the tracks. It’s part of our identity. As usual for us, everything is DIY. Technically, we have learnt a lot since the first album, so we improved our production process, from recording to mastering; and also recorded drums with more “professional” gear than when we started. Sales from our first album allowed us to invest in gear. At the time of the first album, we were low on money, so we had to run a few tests and find tricks to get to a suitable result.

N.K.L.S.: The first album sounds more “metal”, whereas G.O.H.E. is more symphonic, even though there are not many keyboard parts in the background. That being said, the integration of two new musicians I have known for a long time (Jonathan Carette on piano and Julien Lemaire on double bass) emphasizes this facet. Mixed together with Raphaël Verguin on cello, they reinforced our identity with epic and dramatic arrangements.
Once again, given the format (2 x 22min), we think we can allow ourselves to make some experiments.

Ictus: Also, the way we integrated lyrics into the music reached a new step. We worked hard on it, and this is the first time we have joined our voices together. It was a bit tricky at the beginning, but we are quite proud of the result as we are first of all musicians, not vocalists.

AN: Coming back to the present, I don’t know how it is in France right now with restrictions on live performances, but how are you raising the profile of In Cauda Venenum, especially with the recent release of “G.O.H.E”?

Ictus: In Cauda Venenum is for now a studio project. It seems complicated for us to gather and plan any gig or even rehearsal because we don’t live near each other. So, we prefer to focus on our next effort.

N.K.L.S.: To promote the album, we made some DIY handcrafted limited editions of the CD version. This is a good way of bringing light on our work and we’re very pleased to have worked on a nice product.

AN: And finally, is there anything you’d like to say to readers of Ave Noctum

Ictus: I hope this interview will make your readers want to cast an ear on our album and James Ellroy’s work. Everything is available on https://incdvnnm.bandcamp.com and on Les Acteurs de l’Ombre Productions webshop (http://ladlo.net).

N.K.L.S.: Thank you to all the people who got involved in this album and all the work behind it. We think of the guest musicians who brought In Cauda Venenum to a next level. And we don’t forget the incredible passionate team behind Les Acteurs de l’Ombre Productions.

AN: I’d just like to say thank you for your time and responses. I shall most certainly be keeping an eye on developments with In Cauda Venenum. I wish you all every success in the future!

Ictus: Thank you for your support Andrew !!!

Andrew Doherty

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